Curse

actionjack · Sep 24, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

there are few thread about it, but since encounter the close gate again in Nightfall, feel like to bring it up, and suggest modification to them...

Close gate are used to prevent running, so they will stay on progress of linear story plot, not mission skip, and not get the higher-end of goodie (like armor or weapons). It is a good idea, but I think most people dislike them for one thing.... That you don't know the gate is close...

This make people who like to explore have a difficult time, as they want to reach to the next outpost to "save their progress". So after a long hour of fighing repeating mobs and traveling long vast of land, the worst thing you could come to is a close gate, which mean all your progress just gone waste, and that you might have to do that all over again next time.

So in suggesting, would be good to give warning early on on if the gate is close or not.. which could be done by the sign post that you see. So if you read the sign post, and it says that area is still gated, it would help you save the trouble trying to get to there. Another one (I guess that should be credit to WasAGuest), is where have the gate open, but if it is a outpost that you are not suppose to be, than all the NPC will not talk to you (merchant, quest, etc) untill you reach that progress in story or level.

Rawling · Sep 24, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

The first idea - showing on a signpost whether another area is available - is great. Even if you're not running somewhere intentionally, it'll save the hassle of "Ok, I'll just follow this sign... oh snap"

Clone · Sep 25, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Personally, I hate the closed gate system. I'll play through the game linearly the first time anyway. But after I finish it once, I want to get all my characters to a certian area, like getting my prophecies characters to the factions elites, jade quarry, etc. You can only take going into Vizunah Square and seeing the other team is a level 10 assassin with hench so many times.

WasAGuest · Sep 25, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

The closed/locked gate system literally destroys any and all immersion in GW. I can understand the reason, but there are better ways.
Look at it this way:

Modern day: How many times do you enter any town at all that wont let you enter while you are out driving from place to place? None.
Medieval day: How many times would a traveler be unallowed to enter a city, town or outpost after declaring his/her intent? How many time would that same person be sent away when telling a gate keeper he/she wishes to spend money in that town? None.

Outposts, towns and cities would rely on travelers/adventurers to spend their money. They are not going to send away potential spenders. It's dumb and it destroys the games "world".

As Jack said above, nothing is worse than spending a good deal of time exploring only to find you've just wasted all that by ending up at a dead end cause a bunch of babies need thier hands held to get through the story line. ugh. Lose the locked gates before release.

Alternate method: I've said this before, I'll say it again. A simple way to stop runners and allow people to explore is a check/balance system.
If the player has not finished X missions or quests then the merchants will either not sell improved armor (they will still allow the player to "un-junk" though) and weapons. The player can still buy armor at this town, but it's the same stats as what was at the previous ones, untill the player has finished X mission/quests.

Would be like getting all the way to the desert and finding the armor is the same stats as those from Beacons since you haven't completed the missions/quests previously. You can still get there and explore, but now you've got a reason to go through the story line.

Lose the locked gates before release. They are DUMB!

actionjack · Sep 25, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

The closed/locked gate system literally destroys any and all immersion in GW. I can understand the reason, but there are better ways.
Look at it this way:

Modern day: How many times do you enter any town at all that wont let you enter while you are out driving from place to place? None.
Medieval day: How many times would a traveler be unallowed to enter a city, town or outpost after declaring his/her intent? How many time would that same person be sent away when telling a gate keeper he/she wishes to spend money in that town? None.

Outposts, towns and cities would rely on travelers/adventurers to spend their money. They are not going to send away potential spenders. It's dumb and it destroys the games "world".

As Jack said above, nothing is worse than spending a good deal of time exploring only to find you've just wasted all that by ending up at a dead end cause a bunch of babies need thier hands held to get through the story line. ugh. Lose the locked gates before release.

Alternate method: I've said this before, I'll say it again. A simple way to stop runners and allow people to explore is a check/balance system.
If the player has not finished X missions or quests then the merchants will either not sell improved armor (they will still allow the player to "un-junk" though) and weapons. The player can still buy armor at this town, but it's the same stats as what was at the previous ones, untill the player has finished X mission/quests.

Would be like getting all the way to the desert and finding the armor is the same stats as those from Beacons since you haven't completed the missions/quests previously. You can still get there and explore, but now you've got a reason to go through the story line.

Lose the locked gates before release. They are DUMB!

Just a minor point (cause I like to argue)

There are many situation in real life for close gate. Ever try to get into a Jail or Miltary Station/port/fort/outpost? What about trying to go out of country? Or if there is a crime scene. Even getting into a gated community is hard.

So I think the gate is reasonable in GW, especially if that place is being attack or plagued, they don't want any one that is not proven to enter.

But in all case, what you suggest is a good one (which I included and now credited to in the OP). Also would be good if have the warrning... like in sign post... or an NPC in town that forwarn you where you should go and where you can not go yet.

Now on the run. I do agree that people who already got to that point of the game (or finish the game) should be allow to get to certain towns to get an better start on the equipment (thus the Snake Pass), but should not allow people who just start be allow to make that run. So maybe have something (like a Gate Pass Unlock) be granted to you that is account wide once you finish the game, which allow the gate to be open for you other characters.

Winterclaw · Sep 25, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Instead of open gate/closed gate how about having the gates into the next area being open but if you haven't finished the storyline, you can't enter the mission there or use the gates that let you go farther. Meaning if you find naphui before you complete vanzhuna or whatever it is, okay but you can't do naphui yet.

WasAGuest · Sep 25, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Ever try to get into a Jail or Miltary Station/port/fort/outpost? What about trying to go out of country? Or if there is a crime scene. Even getting into a gated community is hard.

Yes, but these are towns and outposts explorers are trying to get into. Think again of the fictional timeline GW is put into. A guard would actually be sitting either in front of, or behind the gate and ask "who goes there?" or even a guard in a watch tower to see who it is. The players, are obviously no threat to the township, so access should be granted 100% of the time. Being locked out just because of, again, holding the players hands is just dumb; and it really distracts from the immersion of the game. Up untill the locked gates I thought Nightfall was near perfect. First locked gate and I instantly had second thoughts about buying it.
It's not a "thick headed" response either, it really kills the exploration and fun of the game for me. I do not like being baby sat while playing a game, and these gates are just that, a baby sitting, hand holding, infant way of stopping players from having a choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

But in all case, what you suggest is a good one (which I included and now credited to in the OP). Also would be good if have the warrning... like in sign post... or an NPC in town that forwarn you where you should go and where you can not go yet.

Thanks.
Sign posts would be good, but it's a band aid to the issue. It would mearly tell the players before hand, "Don't bother exploring, you need too allow us to hold your hand through this section first".

I've never once, and I mean never, heard a single good reason for the locked gates to be in place. I've heard stopping runners and stopping people from skipping missions. Why does anyone care? Is it because there aren't enough people in those pro-locked gates guilds or are their friends lists so short they have to rely on PuGs to get through the game?
I never PuG anymore, so I see nothing wrong if someone wants to skip missions. It's their $50, let them play like they want.

Sli Ander · Sep 25, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I think the sunspear ranks are a partial fix to this. Because you can only do a limited number of quests per rank(new quests won't appear until you get next rank), you can go to the city but have nothing much to do.
I didn't have much trouble over the weekend(even if it looked closed I was usually able to walk in anyway) but it would be wonderful to know when a gate up ahead is shut.
And just because I like to nitpick: even if they are military outposts, our characters are part of the sunspear branch of the military. we should be able to get in anyway. :P
Thanks for another great idea AJ.

legion_rat · Sep 25, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

The gate system is to stop runners, that nice, but I like to explore. the only time I get a runner is to droks for the armor so my squishy lil monk isnt as squishy. after I get the armor I go back to linear play and I play to beacons at least till I get the run :P but I love the exploration of the game. I miss it in the two new ones.

~the rat outside the gate~

bigwig · Sep 25, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

The closed/locked gate system literally destroys any and all immersion in GW. I can understand the reason, but there are better ways.
Look at it this way:

Modern day: How many times do you enter any town at all that wont let you enter while you are out driving from place to place? None.
Medieval day: How many times would a traveler be unallowed to enter a city, town or outpost after declaring his/her intent? How many time would that same person be sent away when telling a gate keeper he/she wishes to spend money in that town? None.

Outposts, towns and cities would rely on travelers/adventurers to spend their money. They are not going to send away potential spenders. It's dumb and it destroys the games "world".

As Jack said above, nothing is worse than spending a good deal of time exploring only to find you've just wasted all that by ending up at a dead end cause a bunch of babies need thier hands held to get through the story line. ugh. Lose the locked gates before release.

Alternate method: I've said this before, I'll say it again. A simple way to stop runners and allow people to explore is a check/balance system.
If the player has not finished X missions or quests then the merchants will either not sell improved armor (they will still allow the player to "un-junk" though) and weapons. The player can still buy armor at this town, but it's the same stats as what was at the previous ones, untill the player has finished X mission/quests.

Would be like getting all the way to the desert and finding the armor is the same stats as those from Beacons since you haven't completed the missions/quests previously. You can still get there and explore, but now you've got a reason to go through the story line.

Lose the locked gates before release. They are DUMB!

you must be kidding about towns not allowing people inside in medieval times. You think they had gates for show? Tourism wasn't exactly a big draw back then. They didn't depend on poverty stricken peasants roaming the countryside to bring money into the town. The more destitute would simply be turned away. As for modern day, have you never heard of gated communities? Border crossings? Country Clubs? Airport security? Military Bases? etc.

WasAGuest · Sep 25, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

you must be kidding about towns not allowing people inside in medieval times. You think they had gates for show? Tourism wasn't exactly a big draw back then. They didn't depend on poverty stricken peasants roaming the countryside to bring money into the town. The more destitute would simply be turned away. As for modern day, have you never heard of gated communities? Border crossings? Country Clubs? Airport security? Military Bases? etc.

Nope not kidding. They were and are called "check points" to keep unwanted and criminals out. The players are hardly either.
The players are also not poverty striken peasants roaming around. If anyone actually reads and follows the story line, the players are put into the situations of actually being "needed" and being "heroes" or soldiers.
This simple and straight forward destroys the illusion of being what we are told we (the players) are supposed to be. Put the players roles into everything you just stated as places where you would be locked out and think for a second instead of trying to justify a stupid and pointless locked gate system.

Military bases: Players in Nightfall are the military, army, police force. Why would they not be allowed in, same with Factions. You've been called on to help, yet your not allowed to help? How dumb is that?
Gated Communities, country clubs: As far as I know, police and more are allowed access to all gated communities.
Border crossing: I imagine simply showing a badge would get you access to these areas. I'm sure what you do there would be limited by your "rank"*, but you could get in.

* Point holds true, locked gates kill the imersion and you helped prove my point. The players should be allowed to get in, but what you do or what you have access too should be limited by what you have done, or by your "rank" within the game.

In real world issues, there is but one situation and one instance where a soldier or police force can't get into a "building". An embassy. This is a building or series of buildings connected and not an entire town or village. Oddly, when under attack, the local forces are often there to aid and given access to help... still, it's one building, not an entire township.

In each chapter thus far, the player is in the role of a hero, not some wandering peasant. In Factions you were commisioned by the emperor and yet he holds no weight with a gate guard? In Proph you were aiding the Prince and King untill exile. After that you were heros of Kryta, then more. In Nightfall we are Sunspears, royal defenders and apparently very well known and revered through the land, yet a simple peon gate guard has the right to block access to a town? Dumb.

wilson · Sep 25, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

I really don't like the closed gate system. As some people have said before, I like playing through the campaign once, as it is meant to be. But with my other characters, I just want to go everywhere as fast as I can and playing through the same story over and over again is plain boring.

Maybe a new "title" could be introduced, that keeps track of the missions you already completed and which would be account based. When you finish the campaign once, or get to a specific outpost in the game, all doors should open up for you. To prevent the rushing of players, which the game designer’s don’t seem to like, you would have to talk to an NPC, a gate guard, that you could find in front of every locked portal.That NPC would "know" that you finished the campaign already once, and you are free to zone to the next outpost or explorable area. Players who havent finished the game yet cannot talk to that NPC and cannot move on without completing the main story line at least once. I most certainly don't want a substitude to the Protector title, mind you. Maybe your rank with the Sun Spears could serve this purpose. Once you get to a certain outpost or complete a specific quest you will get an account based Sun Spear rank that allows you to open all the gates on your way through the campaign the second time around.

This would allow you to skip the useless grind of having to go through the entire campaign over and over again, yet keep players from rushing through and get all the end game gear and skills right off the start.